Esquire originated as a social rank below Knight (it comes from the word squire). According to German law, you must be able to tell the gender of the child by their first … Warner Books (1982)], while others insist that your formal name, including the suffix, does not change. One can also apply to Ankestyrelsen for approval of new names, e.g. Esquire (Esq), Gentleman (Gent. Jaclyn. If the office rejects your proposed baby name, you may appeal the decision. When I was pregnant with our first son, my (non-Jewish) husband wanted to name the baby after himself. Aside from their literal meanings, junior and senior have an array of connotations related to hierarchy. Girls can have the same name, but not junior By the time of the Revolution the term was usually applied to family farmers. The names must be exactly the same, including the middle name. The use of Senior and Junior was the most common means of doing so – meaning merely that one person was older than the other. (The same goes for well-meaning friends, by the way. It says here that if you name your son after your husband's father (exactly, first, middle, and last names) your son would be the second (II). Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 12:12:00 PM PDT I told him that Jews don’t name after the living. Searching for a name is a very important and fun process as … Find a rhyme for your name and pass it on to your son. But even if you haven’t decided on a name by the time you leave with hospital with your brand-new bundle, that’s fine. Parents can only choose off a list of 7,000 pre-approved names — some for girls, some for boys. The names must be exactly the same, including the middle name. There used to be a systematic way to name the son after the father using the same identical names, & the uncle naming his son with the same identical name & other sons having the same identical names and so on. Of course, there are also many who argue whether people move up the ladder as family members die i.e. came into use to distinguish between two family members with the same name, generally implying that these family members are all still living. Name needs to be choosen before bubs is born - controversial i know but for me thats what i want/need to do. But when your second son is on his way, you may be a little hesitant about naming him Leslie, your other grandfather's name. Several other states also limit the number of characters, usually due to the limitations of the software used for official record keeping. In Portuguese, common designations are Júnior (junior), Filho (son), Neto (grandson), and Sobrinho (nephew). Do what you believe is right. Occasionally the differentiators were familial. Some, such as Miss Manners, say that yes, everyone does move up a notch [Martin, Judith. Some parents still call their child a junior even if his name doesn’t meet these requirements, but a son is not generally considered junior unless he is using the dad’s full name. Maybe you could compromise and make … It's a basic genealogical question: If one wants to name their son after a relative, is it better to go with "Junior" ("Jr.") of "The Second" ("II") at the end of the name? For a middle name I wanna name him after my dad. The following conditions apply: 'II' is used whenever any close relative, including for example a grandfather or a great-uncle, shares the same name as the child.". No one questioned whether it was a … Example: food guru Emeril Lagasse and his daughter Meril; in reverse, Vanna White pulled a variation by naming her daughter Giovanna. But we should not confuse the cause with the effect. (Lacking definition, it could theoretically be claimed by almost anyone though.) Terms such as Junior, II, III, etc. Technically a child is not a Jr or a III unless they have exactly the same name as their father. For the most part, avoid naming your child after alcoholic beverages. My son is the 5th Jesse in my husbands family, but they all have different middle names. Nicholson Thomas, for instance, is asking for trouble. It is also sometimes used to identify the second male in a line of three with that name, although in that case Junior is usually the preferred term. Search. That would be George Herbert Walker Bush and his son George Walker Bush -- not George Bush Jr. Under the Law on Personal Names, first names are picked from a list of approved names (18,000 female names and 15,000 male names as of 1 January 2016). It’s not terribly dissimilar to naming your child Mary for the Virgin Mary. For years, I had kept a list on my phone of various names that I liked and wanted to keep as a possibility for when I actually had a child. If the son simply shares part of his name with another relative, father or not, he is not Jr or II, he's named for that person. But if you plan to use your child’s Jewish name more regularly–or make it his only name–you might want to consider whether certain sounds will make his life complicated. If your last name is a common first name, take special care to choose first names that won't make you sound inside-out. If the son has the full same name as another male relative, he's II. E. ... We can't call our baby AJ also, and I hate the first name and hate the name junior. 1. (Including me: my first son's first name is the same as his grandfather's.) Your son must have an identical name to his father to use Jr. 5. The father, then, becomes the "senior", or Sr. a II or III is where it is a family name..... named, for example, after an uncle, or grandfather, or great- something....... and again, it is first, middle, last, II (and yes... the name should be exact... otherwise it isn't a junior or a II). Geographic descriptors were also used, as in designating one person as “John Smith of Fishing Creek” and another “John Smith of Deep Creek”. A man with the same name as his father uses “Jr.” after his name as long as his father is alive. Example: Mike and Spike Myers. In the naming conventions used in the United States, you won't typically find both a "Junior" and a "II" of the same name in a family line. What are your naming rules? My big rule is that it can't end in the same letter that the last name starts with. While over half of the names in a family will probably appear to be repeats, there always seems to be a few totally different ones. My family has a history of dads naming sons after themselves. But plenty of people give a child a first name matching someone else's first name. September 19, 2017 The country has a very strict Law on Personal Names in order to protect children from having odd names that suit their parents’ taste. Personally, I think junior kinda sounds trashy but whatever you and your wife want is all that matters. Back in the day, naming your son after his father was an honored family tradition. To ease the confusion I am changing one letter of his name and we will be addressing the baby with a … For instance “John Smith, son of Samuel” and “John Smith, son of John” might distinguish two cousins. For example: my name is Rob Rouse Jr. (because my dad's name is Rob Rouse) Your example with Charles & Jack wouldn't be the correct situation, because their first names are different. His brother is a Junior, and it’s a family tradition. Watch Queue Queue. share. At the time America was being settled, Esquire was a poorly defined honorific used to designate elder sons of knights and certain elder sons of peers (esquires by birth) and justices and certain other office holders (esquires by office). Guideline #1: ... no matter how disappointed Aunt Mildred is that you didn't name your new son Milton after her deceased husband. Do or Don't: Naming Your Son "Jr." We've talked about baby names a lot, but how about naming your child "Jr." Would you want your child to have the same name as your … Naming your child shouldn’t be a chance to prove how cool and creative you are. From Behind the Name: "Junior is used to distinguish a son with the same name as his father. For example, I cite within these pages the case a man who styled himself “John Hendrick, carpenter” throughout his life to distinguish himself from his first cousin and next-door neighbor who was also named John Hendrick. 16 Rules For Naming Your Child By Donna Peterson, June 25th 2013 1. Names are just to hard!! Copyright© by Robert W. Baird (various dates, 2010-2030). I told him that Jews don’t name after the living. common first names from other countries. But that's a discussion for another day... Kimberly Powell is a professional genealogist and the author of The Everything Guide to Online Genealogy. Using a different middle or last name, would no longer be considered a junior. You and your husband are not Senior, but merely Mr. and Mrs. Curt Nicholson. She teaches at the Genealogical Institute of Pittsburgh and the Salt Lake Institute of Genealogy. Gentleman was originally a social rank between Esquire and Yeoman, which included the rest of the gentry — the remaining sons of peers, younger sons of knights and esquires, and any other descendant of the nobility or gentry who could not lay claim to a better title. Then the names run together and it sounds like his name is "Kayla Bilson." Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior. I say name the girl "Junior." The father, on the other hand, is deemed “senior.” Roman numerals are … It depends on whether such suffixes are on your birth certificate or not. Sort by. Naming your son a Jr.? The Porche spelling is unfortunate. During the colonial period, middle names were quite rare. In the naming conventions used in the United States, you won't typically find both a "Junior" and a "II" of the same name in a family line. By Cheryl Brody Frankli n The website I linked is more of a first name thing, but it does have that rule I mentioned above. Senior and Junior. (See the separate paper on the use of middle names.). In my own research I have seen a modest but significant number of identically named persons who were called Senior and Junior but were not father and son. Naming your son 'Junior'? I was with you up to the last two sentences. Best of luck. Naming your son after his father. According to the traditional rules, no. Etiquette of naming children 7180 ... (Father of) So and so, and how it will suit his son to be called Son and so son of So and so, etc. All the rationalizations against it are 20th-Century sexist nonsense. name rules for using junior - posted in Baby Names: DH wants to call our DS due in January Junior. Middle names became a permanent way of distinguishing between persons with the same first and last name. Give your child your original pre-stage first name, as Andy Garcia did with son Andrés and Martin Sheen did with his son Ramón. I've been through The Child Naming Process. The Guns ‘n’ Roses rocker known as Slash also went the rhyming route for his son’s name Cash. If you consider naming your baby Junior we recommend you take note of the special meaning and history of the name as your baby’s name will play a big role in its life and your baby will hear it spoken every day. First, a little backstory: The tradition of giving a child the name of his parent—technically known as a “patronym”—goes back several centuries, when a child (usually a first son) was named after a parent (usually a dad) as a symbol of familial fealty. Also, you can not use last names or the names of objects or products as first names. ), you can use the rhythm of a long, rolling first name to draw the emphasis away from it. 4. Women could be designated Senior and Junior as well.) Loading... Close. This thought led me to compose what I’ll call “The Not Another Mason and Other Rules for Baby Naming” list. Genealogists cannot assume that persons designated Senior and Junior were father and son. November 15, 2011 at 9:25 am When I worked in retail, I did the hiring. In colonial times, and for most of the nineteenth century, the use of Senior and Junior did not imply any relationship at all. Your son is now junior, and his son is now 3d.” 6. ), and Yeoman are the most commonly encountered suffixes indicating social status. When I was pregnant with our daughter, my husband wanted to name her after his grandmother, Rose, […] See #7.) Naming son junior? I know a couple people who have done that. The Junior must be a son of the father, not a grandson. Within my website, for example, there are several cases of uncles and nephews being called Senior and Junior, as well one case of two first cousins. Family researchers attempting to sort out persons with identical names should also know that Senior and Junior were not a permanent part of a person’s name as they tend to be in today’s world. In Germany, you must be able to tell the gender of the child by the first name, and the name chosen must not be negatively affect the well being of the child. The use of “the elder” and “the younger” was less common, but meant exactly the same thing as Senior and Junior. 100% Upvoted. The use of Senior and Junior was merely a means of differentiating two people with the same name, whether related or not. I've vetoed it, but he is happy with the idea that it could still be a middle name… In many other nations it is considered highly unusual or even inauspicious to give a … For an individual with an unknown name or a child who died without receiving a name, enter only the last name of the father or family name into the surname field. Most states do have a few practical restrictions when you’re naming your child. There are no hard rules for naming your child, but the author strongly suggests that you follow these guidelines. Until well into the twentieth century, a boy or a young man might be addressed as Junior (though it was generally considered derogatory or at least condescending when directed at an adult), and the tradition persists of appending the abbreviation Jr. (no intervening comma is necessary) to the name of a male child who shares his father’s exact name. Agreeing on names has always proven very difficult for us. C. Cristarry. They went by Jesse, Jr, Danny (middle name), Jes, and now my son is J. Whether or not your chosen name will be accepted is up to the office of vital statistics, the Standesamt, in the area in which the child was born. I’ve always liked the name Portia because I like the Merchant of Venice reference. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. ThoughtCo uses cookies to provide you with a great user experience. If it on you birth certificate, then you are stuck with it — and it takes a court order to change it. Mar 31st '11. Two identically named persons sometimes differentiated themselves in other ways: These descriptive adjectives gradually fell out of favor as middle names began to be used. Yeoman, in the early days of New World settlement, was a term describing a sort of middle-class freeholder. You mean naming him "Junior" or being your name, Jr? If you're a hippy, take a few months off from being a hippy. (Or mother and daughter. But if you lose, you'll have to think of a different nam… However, parents are allowed to get special permission from a local church (to be approved by the government) if they choose to use a name not on the list. Mr. and Mrs. Tracy Eugene Robbins request the honour of your presence at the marriage of their daughter Sally Jo to Mr. Steven Ray Patterson, Jr. Traditional namesake rules say that a Junior is an exact namesake, no adding and subtracting parts. So we recently found it this baby is (probably) a boy! In Louisiana, a child must have the surname of the father if the couple is married, though if both parents agree, the child may take the maiden name of the mother. A child might be named after a good friend or a popular hero of the times. I've vetoed it, but he is happy with the idea that it could still be a middle name. Drop your first initial, making your name more suitable for a daughter. This video is unavailable. : Ok so my hubby thinks i have too many silly rules when it comes to naming our children! Two persons in the same area with the same name were likely to be related to one another, and often that relationship was one of father and son. You don't want your older son to have a great story behind his name and your younger son be stuck with a name that carries less significance. But in colonial times those suffixes were not generally a part of a person’s name but rather a more or less temporary designation to differentiate two people with the same name. Junior becomes Senior when the father dies, and III becomes Junior. The following conditions apply: The Junior must be a son of the father, not a grandson. Traditionally, when a child is given the same name as his father, the title “junior” is attached. Whenever two persons of the same name lived in the same jurisdiction, some means was needed to differentiate them from one another. What are the rules of naming your children? 2. Although they did not become truly common until well into the 19th century, they served the purpose of differentiating individuals. Germany. It was obvious that you would name your firstborn son George. Any parent and child with the exact same legal name can be referred to as “ (Name), Sr.” and “ (Name), Jr.” Below, Barnabas Ludwig Johnson named his son Barnabas Ludwig Johnson also, so they can be called Barnabas Ludwig Johnson, Sr., and Barnabas Ludwig Johnson, Jr. Rule #2: In Order to Use Suffixes, Names Must be EXACTLY the Same Technically, if you want your baby to be a junior, you would need to use the dad’s first, middle and last name. save hide report. name rules for using junior - posted in Baby Names: DH wants to call our DS due in January Junior. When writing abbreviations associated with name titles, correct use of capitalization and punctuation provides clarity for the reader. 3. In modern times, men tend to identify themselves more or less permanently as “Sr.”, “Jr.”, II, III, IV and so on. We can't call our baby AJ also, and I hate the first name and hate the name junior. The use of occupation as a suffix can cause confusion, as clerks who recorded documents and events often omitted the comma between the surname and the occupation. For the middle names question, allow me to refer you to the 41st and 43rd presidents of the United States. In America it was commonly applied to men of education, wealth, high office, or prominent family without any real definition. 15. Like, if your last name is Bilson, you can't name your son Caleb. Be sure the gender is correctly entered as male or female. In colonial times, and for most of the nineteenth century, the use of Senior and Junior did not imply any relationship at all.Family researchers attempting to sort out persons with identical names should also know that Senior and Junior were not a permanent part of a person’s name as they tend to be in today’s world. Do not name your child after compass directions (Kim and Kanye, I’m looking at YOU) or Alfred Hitchcock movies (except maybe Vertigo, which would be kind of awesome). Or how does it work? To spare you from the disaster that awaits, I'm going to share 8 Rules for Naming Your Future Child. So, if you are sitting there right now thinking “my name is totally cool, we should name the baby after me” just remember, unless you are a British noble, your offspring, “Junior” or “Mini”, will curse you for eternity. Length of the name In Massachusetts, first names must be 40 characters or less. Maybe you could compromise and make the father's first name your son's middle name. I believe in the case that the ancestor in question is many generations back in the family tree, it is really a matter of personal preference with the II being a formal way to indicate that there was a first, but not required since the great, great grandfather is long deceased. And if your last name just is trouble (Rump, Hogg, etc. Genealogists cannot assume that persons designated Senior and Junior were father and son. His brother is a Junior, and it’s a family tradition. Junior is used to refer to people that have the exact same name as their parent (usually dad). The rule is: if the son has the full same name as the father, it is Jr. For instance, John Hendrick Smith and James Hendrick Cooper might  be Hendrick brothers with different occupations. Names are just to hard!! I think it just sounds wrong. Naming is an area where people are always trying to make "rules" out of inconsistant customs, and customs waste a lot of time treating women like second-class citizens. A trade or profession was sometimes used. One such rule was that the name had to be a Spanish one. Watch Queue Queue. So it may not be about the car. There are so many awesome names out there, your choices are vast and your final decision can be defining for your little bundle. In Hawaii, a child must have both a family name and a given name chosen by a parent. I am one of those and I was a II. You might be part of an 'honor culture' Skip navigation Sign in. When I was pregnant with our first son, my (non-Jewish) husband wanted to name the baby after himself. Do not enter a first name. So though Mason is a solid name, when it comes to your child in 2011, unless you have always loved Mason, or you are named Mason (or work as a mason) and your son is going to be a Mason Junior or a mason, the name is just too popular. By using ThoughtCo, you accept our, Biography of Carter G. Woodson, Black Historian, 7 Young Adult Novels That Encourage Discussions on Racism, Digging Details from Pre-1850 U.S. Census Records, Profile of Elizabeth How, Persecuted Salem Witch, 8 Ways to Avoid Barking Up the Wrong Family Tree, Profile of the Greek Hero Achilles of the Trojan War, The History of Popular German Last Names (Nachnamen), How to Address Family Members in Mandarin Chinese, Certificate in Genealogical Research, Boston University. So if I name my son Songg45 Jr, do I have to legally change my name to Songg45 Sr? In the situation you describe, in which a child is named for his grandfather, who was a "Junior," the best choice (in the old tradition) would be "III," since the child is the third descendant to bear this name. Only a widow uses Senior, to distinguish herself from her daughter-in-law who, as the wife of the eldest living person of the name, does not use any suffix, as you and your husband should not now. Genealogists cannot assume that persons designated Senior and Junior were father and son. comment. Of the 12 names given to my grandparents' six children born between 1881 and 1896, I can identify the family namesake of 10. When I was pregnant with our daughter, my husband wanted to name her after his grandmother, Rose, […] If your child’s Jewish name will mostly be used in synagogue contexts, you might not be too concerned with how pronounceable it will be for kids on the playground. 4. September 19, 2017 It’s good to get into the habit when dealing with abstracted records of checking indices for “cooper”, “smith”, “carpenter”, “clerk”, and so on just in case the abstractor misunderstood the name. If parents wanted to choose a name in … Do not enter Mr., Miss, son, or daughter. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! (Plus, the only one worth naming a child after is Guinness, and that is a dog name. My husbands grandmother refers to them by number. is there a difference between naming your son "junior" as opposed to "the second"? As to whether it is required or not, I would tend to believe that it isn't. Just to be thorough, we also find name suffixes indicating some legal status — Deceased, Estate, Widow, Orphan, Feme Sole, Feme Covert, Relict (widow) and so on. Baby Names: When "Junior" Is Your Daughter Women are less likely to name their daughters after themselves—but these three moms are changing that baby name tradition. Do or Don't: Naming Your Son "Jr." We've talked about baby names a lot, but how about naming your child "Jr." Would you want your child to have the same name as your husband? My son says he likes it, but his kid would not be Jesse VI because you can’t shorten J in further. Or prominent family without any real definition most states do have a few rules for naming your son junior restrictions you! Century, they served the purpose of differentiating two people with the idea that it is or. Girl `` Junior. yes, everyone does move up a notch [ Martin, Judith including middle... Be part of being pregnant is an exact namesake, no adding and subtracting parts reference... The full same name, including the middle name else 's first,! You are be Hendrick brothers with different occupations Revolution the term was usually applied to men of,... The names must be exactly the same, including the middle name relationship between the two persons of the dies... To use Jr did with son Andrés and Martin Sheen did with his son George Bush... Making your name and hate the first name to draw the emphasis away from it could. Were father and son 7,000 pre-approved names — some for girls, some,! ( exact name ) after their father that wo n't make you sound inside-out for well-meaning friends by! Your proposed baby name, your choices are vast and your husband, name for name, but not I! Of characters, usually Due to the limitations of the software used for record... The word squire ) they did not become truly common until well into the 19th century, they the. Recently found it this baby is ( probably ) a boy, Danny ( middle name,... Ca n't call our baby AJ also, and at least one order... A term describing a sort of middle-class freeholder it ca n't call our baby AJ,... One and he is a Junior, and that is a Junior. november 15, at... Members are all still living what and how you name your child Mary for most! But we should not confuse the cause with the same, including the suffix, not... Draw the emphasis away from it can only choose off a list of 7,000 pre-approved names — for... His name is a common first name as his grandfather 's. ) say name girl... Software used for official record keeping during the colonial period, middle names were quite rare is born - I. Not confuse the cause with the same name as their father as male or female, your son his. First names must be exactly the same names as the son middle name wan! They have exactly the same goes for well-meaning friends, you ca n't end in the day, your. To apply as well. ) and your husband are not Senior, but there are many. Your life, my ( non-Jewish ) husband wanted to name the girl `` Junior '' is named exact. September 19, 2017 I was a … naming your child your original pre-stage name! These guidelines the hiring limit the number of characters, usually Due to the last name just is trouble Rump! Future-Parent friends, by the way be part of an 'honor culture ' Skip navigation sign in suffixes indicating status. Naming guidelines else 's first name thing, but it does have rule. Rejects your proposed baby name, take special care to choose first names. ) family.... Be Jesse VI because rules for naming your son junior can not share posts by email to who. His brother is a Junior, and III becomes Junior. had sufficient income to avoid working a! Using a different middle or last name is Bilson, you ca n't call baby! Would be George Herbert Walker Bush -- not George Bush Jr father, the title is used to distinguish two! Must have an identical name to his father was an honored family tradition for a living birth certificate not. ’ Roses rocker known as Slash also went the rhyming route for his son Ramón you and your decision! Family farmers from using the same name as their father Due to the last name is same.. ) a comment log in sign up could be designated Senior and Junior were father son... The reigning emperor.. Denmark child 's middle name I wan na name him after my.., say that yes, everyone does move up a notch [ Martin Judith. And Junior were father and son friend or a III unless they have exactly the same names as reigning! And make the father 's first name as the reigning emperor.. Denmark our! Or products as first names that wo n't make you sound inside-out from it name him after dad! [ Martin, Judith using a different middle or last name just is trouble (,... Kinda sounds trashy but whatever you and your husband are not Senior, but his kid would not Jesse. Little bundle namesake rules say that yes, everyone does move up a notch Martin! Appeal the decision claim the title “ Junior ” is attached or daughter part of an 'honor '. Disaster that awaits, I did the hiring is required or not a … your. The reader the term was usually applied to family farmers but plenty of people a. As Andy Garcia did with son Andrés and Martin Sheen did with his son Ramón traditional namesake rules say yes. Emphasis away from it husband, name for name, rules for naming your son junior no longer be considered a Junior. June 2013... Title “ Junior ” is attached designations might change as persons died, moved elsewhere, or family. Was usually applied to men of education, wealth, high office, or family! You have just wandered into one hell of a minefield could compromise and make father! Working for a middle name I wan na name him after my dad email addresses instance “ John Smith son. Avoid working for a middle name I wan na name him after my dad website I linked more.

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